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U11 Rankings - April 2015

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U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by JenksSoccerDad on Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:42 am

I'm sure some of you guys look at the youthsoccerrankings.us website.  Here are the latest rankings from their site for U11 girls Oklahoma.

1.  TSCH Kitterman
2.  OFC
3.  TUSC Blitz
4.  TSCH Winters
5.  South Lakes Cosmos Blue
6.  Norman Youth SA Fury
7.  TSCH Amos Gold
8.  OFC White
9.  Metro Tulsa SC Jenks United
10.  NEOFC Blue

This guy pulls from multiple websites like GotSoccer.com, HTGSports.net, etc.  Looks pretty comprehensive to me, but I'm sure there are other good sites too.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by longball on Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:54 pm

Close to the OPL standings, but interesting to see where these rankings put the crossover between the 11v11 teams and the top 8v8 teams.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by SSD2004 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:03 pm

That sites pretty cool.  Good news is that teams 2-5 get to mix it up a little this weekend.

I am also interested to see how NYSA and NEOFC do next year in 11 v 11.....I assume they both move up.


Last edited by SSD2004 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Blameitontheref on Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:48 pm

I wonder how U12 OPL will go next year with the fact Clinton dropped out of 11v11 bracket early this year. Will arsenal and Blitz navy relegate since they are the bottom 2 remaining? Or will arsenal get/have to stay in and blitz navy and Clinton count as the bottom 2? Anyone have any idea? Just wondering if they'll be promoting 2 or 3 from 8v8. I can see it happening either way, but my guess is that arsenal is very close to same level as NEOFC and amos gold. Not sure about OFC white and MTSC teams.
Also, what about the spots earned by Kitterman and Winters? If TSC forms a and b teams with new coaches, will they get those spots in OPL gold next year?

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by longball on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:58 pm

When looking at the standings I assumed the next versions of Kitterman and Winters would keep the 2 TSCH spots. Are you hearing something different? It looks like the Amos group might be able to field a solid 11v11 team and NYSA can play with the top group right now. I do not know much about NEOFC, but they look good on paper. The MTSC team is irrelevant other than showing they can compete with the 2nd tier club teams. I think the league next year could be more competitive than it was this year.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by t-town05 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:53 pm

The MTSC team may be irrelevant concerning these rankings but I think they may have some relevant players that could help some of these club teams.
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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Roughneck04 on Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:50 pm

Looks good.  I would say the TSC Amos team has to be ranked above NYSA though.  The last two times they played Amos beat them pretty convincingly.  The MTSC is a rec team that I believe has a couple of old Kitterman players on it and they are a decent team. But they would only be a decent 8v8 OCL team this year. Unity White would be more deserving of their spot.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by JenksSoccerDad on Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:37 pm

There's a feature in the website that allows you to see the "unranked" teams (teams with < 10 recorded games in the past year).  If you look at this, it includes teams as the old academy team name prior to going to club in U11.  For example, Edmond SC Hubbard/OFC White, North OKC Red/OFC, multiple Arsenals, Yukon Luna Chix/Unity White.  One good thing about the website is that if you contact them, they can combine teams under one banner, which would affect the ranking.

I saw a comment about Unity White's ranking.  If they lumped their games as the Luna Chix, then they would almost certainly be moved up under the website's scoring system.

I'm curious what kind of goal differential to add to a 11v11 team when comparing to an 8v8 team.  Arsenal is a good example of this, as their 11v11 ranking is about 1-2 goals less than it's 8v8 ranking, which makes sense considering the size of field and it's effect on scoring.  My guess is that the conversion factor is somewhere around 1-2 goals when comparing 8v8 and 11v11.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by yoyokix on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:44 pm

Has TSC named their new coaches taking over for Kitterman and Winters? Is Blitz getting a new coach?

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Roughneck04 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:15 pm

I heard that Griffin will be the new #1 (Kitterman) and Parker will be the new #2 (Winters) coaches. It also appears like a few Winters players will be sliding up to the Kitterman team to provide depth and a few Amos players will fill the vacancies on the Winters team. It's nice to see TSC operating like an academy and promoting girls. As for Blitz, I haven't heard anything about a new coach yet.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by longball on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:32 pm

Is the sliding decided? Will there be movement in both directions to and from Griffin or stay Kitterman plus a few?

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Roughneck04 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:45 pm

Who knows? Nothing is decided at this point that I'm aware of, but a few Winters players have been playing the last couple of tournaments with Kitterman and the results have been very good. My personal opinion (which isn't worth much) is that Kitterman will remain mostly intact and around 4 Winters players will slide up. I say 4 since Kitterman already plays with a short roster and it seems like every team loses a girl or two at the end of the season. To be clear, that is pure speculation and I do not have any inside information about the new teams. I just don't see TSC breaking up a team that went undefeated in their league and won a big tournament playing up a year in the Gold division.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by tschlurker on Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:59 pm

Have heard coaches say that when combining the B team and the A team it is better to be a top kid on the B team then a bottom kid on the A team.  Losing kids off the A team bench is not TSCH "breaking up the team", it is the reality of the "ladder" in competitive soccer -- TSCH should want to get the best kids together to compete regionally (which will not really happen here until the best Blitz kids come over).  At that age there are always kids on the B team better than kids on the A team, particularly before all the talent is combined.  Would be surprised if it works out any other way this time, particularly with new coaches.  Plenty of drama ahead.
Surprised that the crazy more involved 04 parents here are not spending  more time speculating about tryouts and the merits of the move to Griffin/Parker -- who IIRC last worked together in the 00 age group when Parker handed the pre-ECNL team off to Griffin (when top kids on the B team moved up and A team kids were cut on the way to tryouts).  The 04 B team kids are getting a good deal -- Parker is reportedly universally liked by his players and his teams usually do well.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by bird04 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:24 pm

Rumors I hear are more like what Roughneck04 is stating. Makes sense to me...if you have a winning team, then you don't want to mess around with it too much. Could screw up the dynamic. So you don't want to take too many new players at any one time. Also, I've heard it said that one of the basic principles in these situations is to make sure that anyone you take is better than a person already on the team, especially if you were going to replace them with that new B team player. Since Kitterman essentially has a roster of 12, that gives 3-4 new player slots. IMHO, when you go past four deep into Winters team, that fifth player is not better than the "bottom" player on Kitterman (whoever that would be---girls are streaky and slump at this age!), so very doubtful any additions past 3 or maybe 4 players from Winters. Also highly doubt any changes at goalie or even a two goalie situation, so we're talking field players. Again, all my opinion...as much in the dark as anyone else...

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Blameitontheref on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:43 pm

That could very well be what happens, but not what TSC has been telling parents. Maybe I'm being naive, but I actually expect a full-blown tryout with every spot up for grabs. If Griffin actually takes the time to evaluate all the girls fairly, I would say 8-9 of the kitterman players are locks anyway and the remaining 6-7 spots of a 15 player roster would be very competitive, with it just coming down to Griffin's preference and style of play. It will be interesting to see if TSC allows all the top 15 to be placed on that A team (making a really strong bench as well) and gives Parker the leftovers or if they actually make an effort to construct a functional team for Parker.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Sparky on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:54 pm

just like anyother soccer club (Blitz, OFC, South Lakes, NYSA, etc..)TSC is going to tell you what you want to hear. I do agree with Bird that TSC would be wise not to mess with the dynamics of the kitterman team to much. Why fix something that's not broke....just add parts to bring it closer to perfection.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by bird04 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Blameitontheref wrote:That could very well be what happens, but not what TSC has been telling parents. Maybe I'm being naive, but I actually expect a full-blown tryout with every spot up for grabs. If Griffin actually takes the time to evaluate all the girls fairly, I would say 8-9 of the kitterman players are locks anyway and the remaining 6-7 spots of a 15 player roster would be very competitive, with it just coming down to Griffin's preference and style of play. It will be interesting to see if TSC allows all the top 15 to be placed on that A team (making a really strong bench as well) and gives Parker the leftovers or if they actually make an effort to construct a functional team for Parker.

I guess we only disagree about the numbers, essentially. Will be very interesting to see what happens! You say 6-7 and I say 3 or 4...not that far off when looked at that way....

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by 04eastside on Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:07 pm

bird04 wrote:
Blameitontheref wrote:That could very well be what happens, but not what TSC has been telling parents. Maybe I'm being naive, but I actually expect a full-blown tryout with every spot up for grabs. If Griffin actually takes the time to evaluate all the girls fairly, I would say 8-9 of the kitterman players are locks anyway and the remaining 6-7 spots of a 15 player roster would be very competitive, with it just coming down to Griffin's preference and style of play. It will be interesting to see if TSC allows all the top 15 to be placed on that A team (making a really strong bench as well) and gives Parker the leftovers or if they actually make an effort to construct a functional team for Parker.

I guess we only disagree about the numbers, essentially. Will be very interesting to see what happens! You say 6-7 and I say 3 or 4...not that far off when looked at that way....

I have no skin in this. (other than wanting good, disgruntled players to give us a call at blitz to look at our team. lol)

6-7 players though? That gets into the starting line up of an undefeated team. That would be hard to explain to those girls and parents, would it not? Would definitely be hard to explain to me as a parent.

3-4 girls? Why would i bring my daughter over to try out if the team has essentially already been determined?

Are parents being told different things? Or is ALL of this purely assumptions?

Again, you can bring them to blitz. We just want the top girls of tryouts, no matter where you played or came from. :-)

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by bird04 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:32 pm

Good points, Eastside....and probably all purely assumptions, like you said! Razz

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by tschlurker on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:14 pm

Do you think the starting 11 of the Kitterman team is the best possible starting lineup out of the Tulsa 04s?  Or do you think the best possible 04 starting lineup would include some Winters kids and Blitz kids? I imagine the existing starting 11 will make the team, but doubt they all start next year.  If the coaches think they can upgrade any of their current starters with "outsiders" they will, despite this year's team chemistry.  Every year is a different year, particularly with a new coach.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by Roughneck04 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:39 pm

I think there are two big fallacies we are dealing with in this situation.  One is that the best players always make the best team.  That's not always the case.  Yes, every player needs to be at a certain technical and athletic ability but much of what constitutes a great team comes down to how a coach uses girls in particular roles and the formation. Communication and chemistry are also a huge factor for successful teams, and that can't be forced.  The second fallacy is that a coach can appropriately evaluate a player in three to four 2 hour sessions.  That's not near enough time.  Most of the time a girl makes (or doesn't make) the team well before the tryouts are held.  This is true at every club.  If a girl gets guest playing opportunities and proves she is an asset to the team over several games then she has a HUGE advantage over a girl that coach has rarely or never seen before tryouts.  I've seen this proven true at tryouts at clubs on the east and west side of the state.  But in the end this is just my opinion, the TSC coaches are going to handle it how they deem appropriate and I guarantee they aren't going to ask for my advice.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by tschlurker on Fri May 01, 2015 12:11 am

IMO team chemistry means a lot more to parents whose kids are on the bubble than it does to coaches (or the club which sells the dream and rakes in the cash) -- coaches want the best players.  Unless a super stud kid's parents are total jerks, super stuf kid makes the A team.  As they move forward towards ECNL, it becomes way more about players showcasing themselves as talented individuals than it does about all for one -  one for all.
I agree there are no real tryouts on the dates scheduled -- the teams are unofficially formed before that (absent some unexpected stud showing up)  and what mainly happens that night is that the parents write the check.  I presume Griffin and Parker are watching the A and B team games and will have open or combined training sessions.  They will know for the most part what they are doing well before May 26.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by bird04 on Fri May 01, 2015 12:39 pm

No way any coach is gonna take an unbeaten team and split it in half and add half the players from the B team. Sorry. I detect a lot of buyers remorse in some of the comments. Maybe some people are re-thinking the wisdom of last years fake "tryouts" and feel like they missed the bus and should have walked twenty yards over to spend 45 minutes with us to see for themselves what was up. But wishing doesn't make it so, so no "do overs"...There'll be 3-4 players from Winters (unless someone from out of state or another club like Blitz) taken. Then, after a year of play, there'll be another tryout, and more movement (usually less, but who knows..)...All my opinion, with a bit of rumor mixed in...

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by tschlurker on Fri May 01, 2015 2:04 pm

No dog in the age group, just going by what has gone on with older age groups.  Not suggesting an 8 to 8 split, more like 11-12 to 3-4 which is typical depending on roster size.   The B team kids they like are not going to be put on the A team to sit on the bench.  Teams get better by adding starters.  Next year will be a different experience -- playing time is a zero sum game, and significant minutes for the new kids means less minutes for some of the incumbents.  
Agree the process repeats next year, but not necessarily less movement if Blitz parents are smart and want to get on the ECNL bandwagon.  
The club seems motivated to get the best talent in this age group together early, which may be why coaches at this level were brought in.  The club should realize they missed the boat on doing that with the 00s and 01s and those groups are paying for that in ECNL.  This will be the first year all the 00s on this side of the state will be placed on A-B-C teams according to ability, and 00s are going into the U16 year, which is way too late for that to happen.

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

Post by FUBAR on Fri May 01, 2015 6:04 pm

I hope this doesn't shatter the hopes and dreams of everyone but I heard a rumor that Mia Hamm was cloned and that clone will make the TSC 04 "A" team. IMO this is a game changer, a holy crap moment, because the roster loses 1,2,maybe 3 spots for a stud of this caliber. This was just rumor I heard . Can anyone validate this rumor? Can anyone put up a screen shot of the preformed rosters? It would really help because the kids that were not on the rosters could go over to Blitz, listen to their bs, and try to make there preformed team. l

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Re: U11 Rankings - April 2015

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