osa announces changes in 2016-2017

Too bad. Active boards can provide great entertainment...

Looking forward to a fun Jr. ECNL event next weekend with some amazing teams. The STX teams are very good and their GotSoccer rankings are not indicative of the team on the field.
Would've liked another crack at DTS and FCD Elite though.  

http://events.gotsport.com/events/schedule.aspx?EventID=45995&GroupID=444596&Gender=Girls&Age=12

And as far as next years 2003 TSC team.  Half of 03 Beattie and half of 04 Griffin is going to make for an EXCELLENT team.  Same for next years 2004 team, we have some very good 05's (born in 04) joining our true 04's.
...and not much heartache here, should be nice options all the way around (including the coaching).

Tar Heel wrote:And as far as next years 2003 TSC team.  Half of 03 Beattie and half of 04 Griffin is going to make for an EXCELLENT team.  Same for next years 2004 team, we have some very good 05's (born in 04) joining our true 04's.
...and not much heartache here, should be nice options all the way around (including the coaching).

Agreed. And trust us, we miss an active and exciting board, too! Hopefully, after the shuffle, there'll be plenty of rivalry and therefore controversy on the board....

tschlurker wrote:Well, the Force of the KPG is certainly strong in you.  I am not a geologist but I am not sure 5 months qualifies as ancient history - particularly on this board.  Ultimately, your group is in the midst of a good run and you should enjoy it while it lasts.

No jealousy here - my kid is 4-5 years older.  Adults being jealous over kid soccer would be nutty.  Really just appreciate the entertainment all the 04 parents have brought to what generally is a boring board.  

The reality I mentioned is not parity across the board, but the inevitable reshuffling at the top.  It seems that in any age group, out of the ten best kids at age 11 less than half will be in ten best group at age 16.  That process happens a number of ways.  Some kids catch up by getting bigger stronger faster while others level off and come back to the pack.  Some kids lose ground because they discover boys and social stuff or get burnt out by their overly passionate parents.  The top of the heap changes every year.  I know this group is "different" but the past is littered with examples of bad things happening to good teams as they age.  

Attack 98 was 4 time state champ and moved to TSC to play ECNL.  98 ECNL does not compete for the top of the league any more.

The 00 pre-ECNL (coached by Griffin...) team reached state final and lost in PKs.  I imagine those parents thought their kids were different.  Most of those kids made the original ECNL team in the age group.  Two seasons later only 5 are still on the 00 ECNL team.  

Unfortunately, given the age group change we will never know whether the artists formerly known as the Kitterman team would become like the 99  or 02 ECNL teams or more like the 01 or 00 or 98 ECNL teams.   What we do know is that the age change will be a difficult one in many age groups and kids born in the last half of a particular year will be in unfamiliar territory (youngest in age group versus oldest).  The kids are usually pretty resilient though, it is often the parents that have the bigger problems with change.  Hope it all works out for the kids.

Does your girl play on the 2000 ECNL team? If so, what is the problem with that team? They seem to have never gotten it together? Not being snarky, just always wanted to know as I've seen many references to them not being ever able to live up to their potential...Seems like you might be in a good position to give the inside scoop.

tschlurker, not living up to your moniker...if you're lurking, surely you can give us some 411?!!!

Sorry long day back and forth from Edmond. Will deliver some 00 411 later.

With tsc going true age in the spring willthere top 04 team be allowed to regroup in the u12 gold OPL or will they be in u13 silver?

tschlurker wrote:Sorry long day back and forth from Edmond.  Will deliver some 00 411 later.

Cool

cosmos04 wrote:With tsc going true age in the spring willthere top 04 team  be allowed to regroup in the u12 gold OPL or will they be in u13 silver?

Wishful thinking, cosmos.  But I think all tschlurker said was "Coaches are now telling teams they will be split up by birth year next year, and kids will not be allowed to play up".

I assume "next year" means next fall (following May tryouts) and after State Cup, not "spring" of the current season.

The birth year thing starts next season, Fall 2016 to Spring 2017.  OFC is reportedly going to handle the birth year change in the same way as TSCH next season.  

Long story short (okay, not really) on the 00s, there are a few factors that can impact any TSCH team’s ability to successfully compete in ECNL, which is the highest competitive level in Oklahoma youth soccer after age 14 (particularly since TSCH is in the Texas conference), and those factors have combined to keep the 00 ECNL group below the mark.

The 00 group is an anomaly for U16 groups, with over 100 kids still playing (that is about twice as many players as in the current 99 age group).  The 00s have two pretty successful SRPL teams and an ECNL team, plus 3 other teams, so it is a deep group with probably 40-plus players who could play some level of college soccer somewhere.  Unfortunately that depth has not resulted in ECNL success.  

Something that has hampered the success of the 00 ECNL team is a blessing and a curse for all TSCH ECNL teams – geography, and being placed by ECNL in the Texas region.  While it is great for ECNL kids to get college exposure by playing against the some of the best teams in the country, it is difficult for most TSCH teams to be successful in ECNL.   Given the population numbers, it is an uphill struggle for all but the most elite Tulsa teams to successfully compete against Dallas teams as the kids get older and the best teams are put together.   Go watch an 00 ECNL game sometime – it is different game (faster and more physical) than is played in SRPL or OPL.

Another negative factor is that the best 00 talent did not get together early in the competitive process, and TSCH did not manage that aspect of the 00 group well (perhaps that is why the club is trying to be proactive with its pre-ECNL process now).  Because the best 00 kids didn’t get together soon enough (like when they were 10 or 11), instead of tweaking the roster, every spring the ECNL team mixes in 5 or more new kids, which make it difficult for the team to gel.  Looking at the 99s and 98s, it seems that most of those kids spent years playing together before making the ECNL move.  Of course, the change to birth year age groups may not help in this regard.

Perhaps the biggest factor hindering the 00 ECNL team is that there seem to be no superstars/natural goal scorers in the 00 age group.  There are some likely D-I college players and a bunch of solid players who could play in college, but there does not seem to be a game changing superstar – a future Alex Morgan or Carly Lloyd who can change a game at will.  Historically, it seems Oklahoma teams have difficulty competing against Dallas teams at the highest levels without those types of players – scoring is the hardest thing to do in soccer and it becomes harder against big physical fast ECNL defenders.  In contrast to the 00s, the 99 team has at least three kids that generate a lot of offense, and the 99s lead their ECNL division.

Like other TSCH age groups, the 00s have had a hard time in ECNL.  Hopefully the 00 ECNL luck changes when the age groups change next year.

populista wrote:

cosmos04 wrote:With tsc going true age in the spring willthere top 04 team  be allowed to regroup in the u12 gold OPL or will they be in u13 silver?

Wishful thinking, cosmos.  But I think all tschlurker said was "Coaches are now telling teams they will be split up by birth year next year, and kids will not be allowed to play up".

I assume "next year" means next fall (following May tryouts) and after State Cup, not "spring" of the current season.

Not wishful thinking I'm pretty sure he's talking bout spring.

Nope.  TSCH teams not changing in the spring (although who knows what manner of birth year age group training stuff will go on as tryouts approach).  The current teams will be playing in their current school year age group for any spring games and state cup.

When I said pure age will start "next year" at TSCH I meant "next soccer season", which is the fall 2016-spring 2017 season starting after next May's tryouts.  

Rumor has it that OFC will be doing the same thing with changing to pure age groups as TSCH is planning, also starting next soccer season 2016-2017.

tschlurker wrote:The birth year thing starts next season, Fall 2016 to Spring 2017.  OFC is reportedly going to handle the birth year change in the same way as TSCH next season.  

Long story short (okay, not really) on the 00s, there are a few factors that can impact any TSCH team’s ability to successfully compete in ECNL, which is the highest competitive level in Oklahoma youth soccer after age 14 (particularly since TSCH is in the Texas conference), and those factors have combined to keep the 00 ECNL group below the mark.

The 00 group is an anomaly for U16 groups, with over 100 kids still playing (that is about twice as many players as in the current 99 age group).  The 00s have two pretty successful SRPL teams and an ECNL team, plus 3 other teams, so it is a deep group with probably 40-plus players who could play some level of college soccer somewhere.  Unfortunately that depth has not resulted in ECNL success.  

Something that has hampered the success of the 00 ECNL team is a blessing and a curse for all TSCH ECNL teams – geography, and being placed by ECNL in the Texas region.  While it is great for ECNL kids to get college exposure by playing against the some of the best teams in the country, it is difficult for most TSCH teams to be successful in ECNL.   Given the population numbers, it is an uphill struggle for all but the most elite Tulsa teams to successfully compete against Dallas teams as the kids get older and the best teams are put together.   Go watch an 00 ECNL game sometime – it is different game (faster and more physical) than is played in SRPL or OPL.

Another negative factor is that the best 00 talent did not get together early in the competitive process, and TSCH did not manage that aspect of the 00 group well (perhaps that is why the club is trying to be proactive with its pre-ECNL process now).  Because the best 00 kids didn’t get together soon enough (like when they were 10 or 11), instead of tweaking the roster, every spring the ECNL team mixes in 5 or more new kids, which make it difficult for the team to gel.  Looking at the 99s and 98s, it seems that most of those kids spent years playing together before making the ECNL move.  Of course, the change to birth year age groups may not help in this regard.

Perhaps the biggest factor hindering the 00 ECNL team is that there seem to be no superstars/natural goal scorers in the 00 age group.  There are some likely D-I college players and a bunch of solid players who could play in college, but there does not seem to be a game changing superstar – a future Alex Morgan or Carly Lloyd who can change a game at will.  Historically, it seems Oklahoma teams have difficulty competing against Dallas teams at the highest levels without those types of players – scoring is the hardest thing to do in soccer and it becomes harder against big physical fast ECNL defenders.  In contrast to the 00s, the 99 team has at least three kids that generate a lot of offense, and the 99s lead their ECNL division.

Like other TSCH age groups, the 00s have had a hard time in ECNL.  Hopefully the 00 ECNL luck changes when the age groups change next year.

Thanks! Good summary. What was the thing, in your opinion, that prevented TSCH from getting the right kids together early on? This is the type of thing that hopefully can be avoided going forward (or, at least one hopes it is somewhat avoidable)....

The best talent was not all at TSCH at the right time, and when it finally got there the club mismanaged the situation. The talent was spread out at Thunder, Blitz and TSCH up until they were U12/U13, as those clubs fielded roughly equal teams. Everyone thought their own KoolAid tasted best so there wasn't any effort at any level to get the best Tulsa kids together in one group. Kids started moving over from Blitz at the time Thunder merged with Blitz but it was a slow process. New kids coming ran into the internal politics created by a long-standing A team (which creates a parent entitlement mentality/resistance to change), so there was not much effort to fold new arrivals into the A group initially. The whole Blitz team came over at U15 and the club let them play together as a unit instead of forcing a competitive tryout (something that should happen at a competitive club), which derailed any chance of picking the actual best ECNL team. The 00 ECNL team had dropped a handful/added a handful each year and has to re-gel every year. I am pretty sure that's not how it works in Dallas.

Another factor is that statewide, OFC had the best 00 team until ECNL started. A couple of their kids have come to play ECNL, but they still have 2-3 kids that could help the 00 team. As a practical matter, it is probably too late for the 00s to improve past middle of the pack at this point. But they get a lot of college exposure regardless because that's how ECNL rolls.

It seems like the club has perhaps learned from this a bit and is trying to start the process of creating future ECNL teams sooner. ECNL hasn't been around all that long in Tulsa so maybe they will figure it out, but that is uncertain based on what has gone on so far. The club's best ECNL teams were not developed at TSCH, but instead dropped into the club's lap, simply because TSC merged with Hurricane and became an ECNL club (95 from Hurricane, 98 and 99 from Blitz). Hopefully they can get kids together earlier and overcome parents and politics and other stuff that can screw up the process.

It is too bad that TSCH and Blitz can't get on the same page and merge in to a super club. Look at the younger age groups when this happens. 04 Umello boys came from Blitz and joined TSCH and they dominate. 06 Keply boys and girls left TSCH and joined Blitz and they dominate. Granted 06 Keply girls dominated before they left TSCH but they are majority 05s so it will be interesting to see if they continue the success next fall.

tschlurker wrote:The best talent was not all at TSCH at the right time, and when it finally got there the club mismanaged the situation.  The talent was spread out at Thunder, Blitz and TSCH up until they were U12/U13, as those clubs fielded roughly equal teams.  Everyone thought their own KoolAid tasted best so there wasn't any effort at any level to get the best Tulsa kids together in one group.  Kids started moving over from Blitz at the time Thunder merged with Blitz but it was a slow process.  New kids coming ran into the internal politics created by a long-standing A team (which creates a parent entitlement mentality/resistance to change), so there was not much effort to fold new arrivals into the A group initially.  The whole Blitz team came over at U15 and the club let them play together as a unit instead of forcing a competitive tryout (something that should happen at a competitive club), which derailed any chance of picking the actual best ECNL team.  The 00 ECNL team had dropped a handful/added a handful each year and has to re-gel every year.  I am pretty sure that's not how it works in Dallas.

Another factor is that statewide, OFC had the best 00 team until ECNL started.  A couple of their kids have come to play ECNL, but they still have 2-3 kids that could help the 00 team.  As a practical matter, it is probably too late for the 00s to improve past middle of the pack at this point.  But they get a lot of college exposure regardless because that's how ECNL rolls.

It seems like the club has perhaps learned from this a bit and is trying to start the process of creating future ECNL teams sooner.  ECNL hasn't been around all that long in Tulsa so maybe they will figure it out, but that is uncertain based on what has gone on so far.  The club's best ECNL teams were not developed at TSCH, but instead dropped into the club's lap, simply because TSC merged with Hurricane and became an ECNL club (95 from Hurricane, 98 and 99 from Blitz).  Hopefully they can get kids together earlier and overcome parents and politics and other stuff that can screw up the process.

Thanks for the very cogent analysis! The "everyone drinking their own KoolAid part is very apropos to what went on the year before last at TSCH in the 04 age group, for sure...a cautionary tale! And that part about entitlement mentality is something to reflect on, too...Let's hope that these mistakes can be avoided going forward in all age groups!

tschlurker wrote:It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  TSCH has apparently decided to implement the "pure age" change cold turkey (other than kids who will be HS seniors).  Coaches are now telling teams they will be split up by birth year next year, and kids will not be allowed to play up -- for example, the 00 age group (most of whom are in 10th grade) will be split into 99 birth year kids (who will play as 99s next year) and 00 birth year kids (who will play as 00s next year).  

OSA is mandating pure age next season, so the fact that TSC coaches are conveying that to teams is not surprising.  What is most interesting about this, though, is the apparent prohibition on "playing up".

Of course the only way you can keep an existing team together in "pure age" is to have most of your kids "play up".  But doing that, or coercing that, is rarely what's best for the kids' development; and there shouldn't be that kind of pressure placed on them.  It also creates potential chaos at tryouts (er, "team formation") next May.  

So I applaud TSC's decision (if tschlurker is correct).  I think every club, or OSA generally, should prohibit playing up . . . at least next season, so that natural teams can form and players can adjust.  If, after a year of play on a new team, someone still wants to "play up", so be it.  But it should not happen wholesale just to keep friends together.

I believe from what the coaches say the no playing up "rule" is indeed TSCH's current plan of attack.  The club almost has to do it that way to have teams stay competitive after the rule change (which helps bring in the $$).  I also agree it makes developmental sense to not let kids play up, particularly with the younger kids.  Parents of a kid born in July 04 should think twice about whether they want their child to play against Dallas kids born in January 03.  It remains to be seen whether the club will maintain the courage of its convictions when enough parents start whining (as some have started to do) about keeping their particular group of special snowflakes together.

I have a question for the board...Let's say you have an 03 birth year "04". With the new rule changes, does she play U13 or U14 next year? (Applies to all ages in like situations.) Same thing for an 04 birth year playing on an "04" team...does she go on to a U12 or a U13 team next year? Be careful, I've heard rumors that this is a trick question!

It seems the USYS chart should answer that question:

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/assets/1/15/USYS-NEW-SOCCER-AGE-CHART-2016-BIRTH-YEAR-MATRIX%20v1.pdf

The chart shows 03 birth year kids will play U13 next soccer season (2016-2017) and 04 birth year kids will play U12 next soccer season.

So, the current 04 age group (mostly 6th graders I think) should theoretically now be playing U12.  Next soccer season,  current 04 kids born in last half of 03 move to U13.   Current 04 kids born in first half of 04 will play U12 in 2016-2017.  Again.

The wrinkle that hits the younger age groups like the current 04s is that unless ECNL expands to ages below U14, the born-first-half-of-04 group would not start playing ECNL until they are in 9th grade, while the born-last-half-of-03 age group would start ECNL in 8th grade (and would get an extra year of ECNL).  This may make some parents lose their minds.

Does this square with what you've heard?

I've heard, for instance, that the 03 birth year kids will actually be playing U14 next year (i.e. it actually means UNDER 14)...I've heard that USYS is currently correcting their age chart and will send it out soon to reflect this. What this would do to ECNL is anyone's guess. Also, this could all be rumor. Wouldn't actually change any facts on the ground, so to speak, as the same kids will still be with the same kids of their age group....I guess we'll find out soon enough!

The '03's will be 12 at the beginning of 2016 (the new cutoff date being December 31), correct? So they will be UNDER 13, or U13. The '04's will be 11 on December 31, so going into 2016 they will be U12. This is how it's always been, the cutoff date was just different. Right?

I have heard the same thing bird, and its coming from OSA office. They say age chart is wrong and 03 birth years will be U14 next year. Like you said, doesn't really effect kids playing 11v11 but does effect kids 05s and 04s that would play extra year of 9v9. Although I have others that should be in the know saying OSA is crazy and true 03s will be u13 next year. I hope somebody gets something out soon to clarify.

Jumping 03 birth year to U14 seems extremely unlikely - if USYS bumped 03s to U14 next season it moves everyone else up similarly and each age group skips a season. For example, it would mean the first-half-of 98 birth year kids would skip U18 entirely and become U19 (and would lose their last year of ECNL/youth soccer), and all younger age groups would eventually become U19 as HS seniors, which seems unworkable under the current system.  We will see.  I generally agree with those who say OSA is crazy, but this is particularly whack -- USYS won't do something that has kids skip (and thus miss) a year of youth soccer (which would reduce revenue for the clubs and thus USYS).