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Kickball Defined

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Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:37 pm

There is a great thread on the Texas board regarding coaching at the younger ages through u13 or so. Many are giving it up to this comment:

"Kickball: sally is 9 years old. A Defender. Angie is bigger faster Foward 9 years old. They play for the same team. Their coach, let's call him chuck, is known to be a great coach because he's won 50 games in a row. Although he didn't even play soccer himself. He recruits better talent every year because he wins and that's all most parents care about. In one game Sally, the defender, runs up on the ball. Under no pressure and without any first touch she boots it down the field as far as she can. Sally dad yells send it as she does this. Sally's mom yells "good kick" cause it went really high. It bounces 5 times till Angie, the Foward who is fast as hell, runs to it. She out runs 5 defender and hits a laser to the back post. Chucks team wins and they are now ranked 1st in FBR. Fast Foward 4 years. Sally's and Angie are now 13. Angie, the fast Foward, now plays defense. She cant outrun girls anymore and doesn't have the skills to beat defenders. Sally plays goalie cause all she can do well is boot it. She lacks a good first touch and field awareness. She has no idea what it means to switch the field. Chuck loses his team cause he is not winning any longer and the smaller, smarter soccer teams are now ranked 1st in FBR."

Thoughts whether applicable north of the red river?

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by 04Bonosfan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:11 pm

It was a great and to the point.
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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:26 pm

Another post


Kickball has actually become a lot more refined. Now you look for the biggest kids you can find, that not only can kick it a long way but knock the hell out of every player on the opposing team also. Kind of a soccer/rugby mix if you will. They can usually get the less proficient possession style teams to join in the pinball game because the ball is just willy nilly kicked the minute it's touched. The goal is to get the big pushy kids in very good shape so they can constantly run after the ball with their elbows out, knocking down unsuspecting opponents as they sprint up and down the field. If one of your players has them beat and is headed toward the goal they will blatantly shove your player down and take the yellow or red, which usually isn't thrown anyway, As witnessed this weekend with one of fcd centrals opponents in the silver bracket. The silver bracket was about half and half kickball vs soccer. And yes kickball can and does win at this age.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by archer on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:50 pm

Really? Lol

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:51 pm

And here comes the archer troll. Let the band start playing.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by archer on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:09 pm

At the least a violin.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by SSD2004 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:41 pm

Love him or hate him, this place would be boring without archer....

But I do think this post may have hit a little close to home for him. Maybe he coached a team like this in rec ball or maybe he knows a team very similar to this.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by Number6 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:10 pm

It is kinda weird that the southlakes posters are always searching for articles on why their kids are developing and the winning clubs are just doing their kids a disservice. We get it, you guys dont win as much because you make lots of passes and the teams that win now are coached by kickball saboteurs. LOL

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by SSD2004 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:20 pm

I actually think Southlakes may change their strategy this year....

We are thinking of agreeing to reschedules then backing out and forcing forfeits to improve our record. We will let you know how it goes.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:21 pm

Number6 wrote:It is kinda weird that the southlakes posters are always searching for articles on why their kids are developing and the winning clubs are just doing their kids a disservice.  We get it, you guys dont win as much because you make lots of passes and the teams that win now are coached by kickball saboteurs. LOL


If searching out articles means looking on the texas board this morning and this being at the top of the list then yes, i'm guilty. As to "winning clubs" and the rest not sure what your talking about. I didn't cast assertions at any club. I love the way TSC Griffin plays. There are other clubs i think are playing good soccer. There are some that are not. Either way it all works itself out over time. The only losers are the "Sally's" of the world who had these bad coaches.

I'll even take it one step further, i think the problem as the thread talks about is the coach. Every club has a coach like this. South Lakes included. They are more about winning than developing and play kickball at these younger ages. I think the problem is even more defined in smaller clubs where you are more likely to have a rec coach operating under the guise of a licensed coach. To me, its a real problem that exists in all of soccer.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by archer on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:43 pm

Number6 wrote:It is kinda weird that the southlakes posters are always searching for articles on why their kids are developing and the winning clubs are just doing their kids a disservice.  We get it, you guys dont win as much because you make lots of passes and the teams that win now are coached by kickball saboteurs. LOL
better leave him alone Number 6 or he will explain some more.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:46 pm

archer wrote:
Number6 wrote:It is kinda weird that the southlakes posters are always searching for articles on why their kids are developing and the winning clubs are just doing their kids a disservice.  We get it, you guys dont win as much because you make lots of passes and the teams that win now are coached by kickball saboteurs. LOL
 better leave him alone Number 6 or he will explain some more.
ouch you got me. what a zinger. Utter brilliant retort. Your clearly the next Atticus Finch of debate on a message board. Very Happy

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:49 pm

Now back to the subject with another good comment i read.

Fact is that a good coach must be able to teach both styles of play... nice passing game when the opposing team drops off and be able to play a little more direct when the other team high pressures and doesn't allow space to pass. Hence, players need to able to play both styles. The only decision to be made is when to teach each skill.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by Kickin grAss 04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:57 pm

I think you last point was right on. I also saw this originally on the Texas forum and thought it was a great article.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:58 pm

Kickin grAss 04 wrote:I think you last point was right on.  I also saw this originally on the Texas forum and thought it was a great article.  
Its fascinating and educational. As parents we should try to educate ourselves in part because of our DD developmental needs. Couple that with age pure coming which equals unknown coaching its smart to look at see what different coaches do before committing your child.

Also here is another good analysis:

I think maybe the idea of possesion is different. It's not all 5 to 10 yard passes. For example a center midfielder being able to get the ball in and out of her feet in 2 touches switching it all the way to the other sideline. Well the same technique she needs to get it all the way wide is the same as the one she will need to find a penetrating run 40 yds down field. Most of which comes with techniques, age, and strenght. Or lets say a CB who can switch the fields skipping the other CB. Again same technique. Now once I have a team full of skilled kids it is as simple as the other team is pressing high I want you to kick this ball over and in behind. If they have the strength they will be able to execute it. Technique is taught when they are younger power and strength will come when they get older.

So many teams play kickball here because it works. There are always excuses for the deployment and really in the end only the kid pays for it. Even coaches that know its bad use it because we not only accept it we demand it. NTX has a reputation for it. It's why there is very little respect for the texas game in CA and with the national team and west coast colleges

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by 04Bonosfan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:24 pm

Some people it is all about the win and if you can win with long balls (precise passing balls 20+ yards to that super-fast physical player) then it’s a win for that DD.
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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by bird04 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:53 pm

SSD2004 wrote:I actually think Southlakes may change their strategy this year....

We are thinking of agreeing to reschedules then backing out and forcing forfeits to improve our record.  We will let you know how it goes.

Awesome! So very true and so very ineffectual, as it turned out! Razz

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by bird04 on Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:05 pm

Interesting TSC Parker vs OFC score (Parker 2-OFC 1)....Parker gelling or OFC still with injuries to a couple of top players? Or something else? Not hearing anything from either side....

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:17 pm

bird04 wrote:Interesting TSC Parker vs OFC score (Parker 2-OFC 1)....Parker gelling or OFC still with injuries to a couple of top players? Or something else? Not hearing anything from either side....
Don't know anything about the OFC game but will say that I was impressed by Parker yesterday. I thought they played night and day better than when we played them this summer and most importantly played GOOD soccer. It wasn't kickball. Props to them and their coaching.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by SSD2004 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Parker has some girls that can rip the ball...that's for sure and they had really good ball movement especially the 2nd half against SLSC.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 1:27 pm

Skill in girls soccer isn't the same as it is in the boys game. You may see some skill in the girls game but it is rarely used properly. If you have a 5'9" or 5'10" girl that is fast and can kick hard then that is what wins. At the higher levels it's all about organization, first touch, and movement off the ball. The top female college teams have a bunch of big fast girls. Some have skill and some don't. It is not a necessity in the girls game. Women's college soccer coaches are looking for big and fast because that is what the women's college game is. Not skill or flash. It is more of a brute game.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by Number6 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:56 pm

That a great point. When you watch college soccer they play to the strength of their players which seems to be strong and fast.

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Re: Kickball Defined

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:29 pm

I agree and disagree. If you watched the world cup you saw the announcers talking about how Morgan Brian is the new style of midfielder the US is trying to bring the ranks. The Carly Loyd types are no longer favored. As to the college soccer comment i also agree but disagree. The college coaches are paid to win. They will recruit what the talent pool has. They would much rather have highly skilled, but very good athletes, compared to just big strong girls. You can look on college rosters and tremendous size range (OU's has 5'1 to 5'10).

Also, 11 and 12 year old needs are vastly different from college needs. The focus should be on development, not winning.

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