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clubs that actually focus on development?

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clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by man called czar on Fri May 06, 2016 7:14 pm

Having been involved with academy soccer for a few years, I know there's plenty of clubs out there that pigeon-hole players into a specific role. I've seen kids spend 3 years playing defense but can't attack (or pass), and kids that have only played striker that can't defend (or pass). I now recognize this as the perfect kickball strategy.

Further, due to the somewhat arbitrary nature of talent identification, I've seen bench warmers become stars and stars become bench warmers all because of a switch in the coach.

All of this goes against US soccer's recommendations, and is counter to what the european academies actually practice.

So, are there clubs in this state that actually care about development and could give a crap about W/L? Or do you just have to be lucky to find the right coach?

Once you start competitive, I hear it actually gets worse, and your kid should have a position that s/he expects to play going forward. Hard to believe a 10 year old kid can have that kind of foresight.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by Roughneck04 on Sat May 07, 2016 4:54 pm

Development depends on the coach, not the club in Oklahoma. TSC, OFC, and Blitz do a good job developing girls, but it's the coaches doing the development not the club. You can get your DD in one of these clubs and if they're with the wrong coach they won't develop. Anymore, it's up to the parents to find the right fit and level for your kid.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by FUBAR on Sat May 07, 2016 9:00 pm

Great post Roughneck, I totally agree.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by 918soccer on Sat May 07, 2016 10:38 pm

I think many of my coaching friends would agree with your assessment roughneck that they are the primary factors that contribute to a players development; but in my observation, development depends on many factors and athletes can learn just as much from their teammates and external training sources as they do from their coach. In order for players to develop fully they need a good coach, teammates, competition and parents. Some would argue they also need good training fields and a competitive environment that requires the kids to fully commit to training in order to keep their spot on the team or make the next level team.

I believe players get out what they put in and coaches are only one factor that determines how much players put in.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by man called czar on Sun May 08, 2016 12:30 am

In retrospect, when we first started he was on the B team and had a good coach. should've turned down the spot on the A team.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Sun May 08, 2016 5:38 am

Every time we go play NTX teams it just makes me realize what I'm not/should be getting coaching wise. Think you stand a better chance of getting a quality coach at TSC due to numbers. I haven't ever been 100% happy with any coach. I think the ones that help inspire confidence in your child are the best, especially in girls. I want a coach that has a solid plan for development and has high expectations. I really wish we'd quit trying to adopt other countries styles and create an American style that works for American kids.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Mon May 09, 2016 4:41 pm

Look for the coach that realizes its a marathon not a race.  One that is willing to stick (especially with girls) through peaks and valleys (they will have them) and one who does not sacrifice the long term vision for short term benefits.  

Look to those teams track records of development which is often not measured in wins.  I know certain clubs who in the older ages have CM and CB primarily made up of kids they recruited from smaller clubs at the u14 age time.   Lets face it, some coaches (not clubs) bash physically with older developed kids small teams in hopes of recruiting their more skillful players as they get older.

Also, if 20 - 40% of your team (3-4 players on a 11 v 11 team) played academy and/or early years in competitive at another club you can probably say that that other club was better developmentally.

ENERGYFC04

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by man called czar on Tue May 17, 2016 6:03 pm

Great posts Energy / TSC

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by Keeper on Tue May 17, 2016 8:37 pm

I hate to be that parent, but I hate when parents totally rely on coaches for 100% of their development. If you want your kid to be better than put more time or equal time that top level kids do. It's the same in any sport. I've rarely seen a great player that's not over dedicated to making their individual game better instead of switching coaches.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by TSCSOCCERDAD on Wed May 18, 2016 1:22 pm

Keeper wrote:I hate to be that parent, but I hate when parents totally rely on coaches for 100% of their development. If you want your kid to be better than put more time or equal time that top level kids do. It's the same in any sport. I've rarely seen a great player that's not over dedicated to making their individual game better instead of switching coaches.
I agree, but would like to add. A coach can/should inspire your child to be better and I really hate to go down this road, but they are being paid by us with that expectation. I think a lot of times the coach feels no obligation to parents/child and that it's,"their way or the highway", with the club leadership playing dumb about the coaches ineptitude. Why would we as parents/consumers continue to funnel money into something with no return or not the return we've expected. We don't do this in any other aspect of our lives. Sure we could quit or find another coach, but how about that coach being evaluated by the club and told to be better. I'm not sure this happens at TSC. I think a lot of times we're content with our kids being on best team, but if your not being selfish about your kids development then your doing your child a disservice.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by phil_weston on Wed May 18, 2016 2:08 pm

Keeper wrote:I hate to be that parent, but I hate when parents totally rely on coaches for 100% of their development. If you want your kid to be better than put more time or equal time that top level kids do. It's the same in any sport. I've rarely seen a great player that's not over dedicated to making their individual game better instead of switching coaches.

I agree that to become a top player a kid needs to practice on his own. You need talent and passion to succeed at higher levels.

OP though touches on basics that all coaches should be doing though, IMO. Us consumers are setting the bar too low.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed May 18, 2016 2:13 pm

If your just touching the ball at practice your kids ceiling will not be as high as those who work outside. There is limitations to what a coach can do in a setting of 13 - 17 kids. The best choice I ever made for my DD was to get privates (sometimes weekly, sometimes biweekly). I'm a big believer of weekly privates in the summer. I'm also a big believer in speed and agility and some strength training which can be done on your own. NEVER rely solely on a coach for development!

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by Oakie75 on Wed May 18, 2016 2:35 pm

Sounds like everyone has a good handle on this. With three daughters in competitive I have seen a broad range of coaches and played for several clubs. Never rely on a coach alone to make your daughter better. That will usually fail. Privates are great and do work wonders for kids. If a kid is not willing to practice outside of actual practice times I dont see them getting better or having the drive to be better. It's hard to instill that in a child. In my opinion they either have it or they dont. It's not something that can be taught. we've all seen the player who has incredible natural talent and ability. That only lasts a short while and they usually end up getting caught and surpassed.
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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed May 18, 2016 2:52 pm

Dang, i'm going to agree with Oakie a lot today apparently. His comment that the player with "incredible natural talent and ability" will get caught and passed is spot on. I recall players who were great in 8 v 8 and now parents ask "what happened to that kid" Same applies to 11 v 11 where a girl who is dominate in U11 - U12 starts disappearing at U13 and is average at best by U14 where size and speed start to even out (growth rates and differences/puberty).

All that said, stay the course with fundamentals and individual training. It will reap benefits as the years pass and things even out.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by phil_weston on Wed May 18, 2016 3:02 pm

So true Oakie75... Talent and passion.

In my case (and I assume this is true for most kids that wind up contemplating competitive soccer) it's been worse having a naturally gifted athlete. He's used to not having to work and just showing up and being one of the better players. I try to drill into him that he needs both to play at the higher levels, and if he doesn't have that passion to practice then maybe soccer isn't the sport for him. Hope to figure that out before shelling out thousands of $$$ for competitive.


I wish we had more of a pick-up environment for kids -- he'll play games all day long if they're available, but doing any skills work on his own is like pulling teeth. (Unless it's passing the football or shooting hoops, he's all for that).

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by redcard on Wed May 18, 2016 3:05 pm

I see gifted athletes fall into that situation all the time. It takes passion and committment to become a player. Best of luck with him and figuring it out

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by redcard on Wed May 18, 2016 3:06 pm

Often we see the best athletes that are strong, fast and dynamic at a young age that are the dominant player on teams degress and not reach their potential. Most often they rely on their speed and dont develop tools to become soccer players and over time they are not effective.

You cant force players to get extra training. Not saying it is even needed in all cases. Its about being comfortable with the ball at your foot. Whether the player is sitting on the couch with the ball at their feet doing tandems/tick tocks  while watching tv. My player is constantly is hitting the ball against the fire place. Little things can make a huge difference. Going outside with the ball.

With that said. Not for sure about all clubs but I do  know that TSCH has coaches in the academy that do focus on development. A. Carreno sessions on skills are amazing. That is one of her strong assets as a coach. If you ever have seen her play she was and is brillant on the ball. Im sure as a kid she always had a ball at her feet. That doesnt just come from a team practice. Williams is also incredible with technique and skill.  I could name several.

A coaches job is to develop a team and not players. So, in my opinion they cant develop single players. I feel development of players comes from spending time outside practices.

I do see your concern  of wanting more time spent on development. My player lacks leg strength in striking the ball bc of being smaller in stature. Some of that comes with growth and maturity. We have contacted a trainer to work on that. Its amazing how fast they can develop in just a few sessions.

Best of luck!!

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by phil_weston on Wed May 18, 2016 3:12 pm

ENERGYFC04 wrote:All that said, stay the course with fundamentals and individual training.  It will reap benefits as the years pass and things even out.

How much do you push? I constantly wonder if I'm doing too much or not enough. For academy I haven't made him do anything other than what he wanted to do.

I told him I would pay for private lessons if he was willing to do the 'homework' that the coach assigned... It's only been 2 weeks but so far he's upholding his end of the bargain.

I've also told him that if we (as parents) are going to make the financial and time commitment for competitive, that I needed to see him practicing on his own (some skin in the game, so to speak)... Otherwise he could just go out and have fun playing rec.

My passion was music... I would've killed for my parents to have been able to afford private lessons, and as it was I was constantly practicing on my own without any outside prodding. Even the scales!

Of course, that didn't really kick in until after Jr. High.


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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed May 18, 2016 3:12 pm

I have an 2004. My thoughts have been to use the private trainer to work on skills or areas of her game that needs improvement. Like redcard, after a few weeks of training her technique and striking ability changed dramatically. While i will do a private every two weeks this summer i'm changing course a bit and having my DD do some core and strength training in conjunction with speed an agility with a youth sports trainer i know.

Now that i've said what i'm doing i will tell you why. I went to my DD coach and asked him what she needs to improve on. He and the private coach communicate what he wants to see her better at. Plus, the private coach has asked my DD what she wants to work on and/or improve (one time she asked to get better with ball in the air). In other words, don't rely upon what you see as a parent. Have a working group together if, and only if because its expensive, your DD is truly passionate about the game.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed May 18, 2016 3:16 pm

phil_weston wrote:
ENERGYFC04 wrote:All that said, stay the course with fundamentals and individual training.  It will reap benefits as the years pass and things even out.

How much do you push? I constantly wonder if I'm doing too much or not enough. For academy I haven't made him do anything other than what he wanted to do.

I told him I would pay for private lessons if he was willing to do the 'homework' that the coach assigned... It's only been 2 weeks but so far he's upholding his end of the bargain.

I've also told him that if we (as parents) are going to make the financial and time commitment for competitive, that I needed to see him practicing on his own (some skin in the game, so to speak)... Otherwise he could just go out and have fun playing rec.

My passion was music... I would've killed for my parents to have been able to afford private lessons, and as it was I was constantly practicing on my own without any outside prodding. Even the scales!

Of course, that didn't really kick in until after Jr. High.

On the pushing i trust my wife lol. I would go every day all day as that is my passion for sports and even though i knew little about soccer when we started, the love of sports has created a bond with my DD that is worth more than gold.

Aside form my wife, i have learned the hard way that kids will have peaks and valleys. Leading up to state cup we really tried to hone in on my DD's focus before games and tournaments. Afterwards, i've let her go to practice and its been about a 50/50 shot whether she has the focus. As to privates, she loves the 1 v 1 communication with the coach so i haven't had to worry about that. I'm constantly learning in this area but i think its a feel thing for your kid and you as a parent have got to know when to push and when to lay off.

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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

Post by phil_weston on Wed May 18, 2016 3:46 pm

Something relevant that just popped up in my twitter stream.


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Re: clubs that actually focus on development?

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