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Top 5 04 girls teams

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by 05GKdad_Tulsa on Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:34 pm

OK Arsenal, Clinton & Blitz Navy only playing that because it is 11v11...irregardless of whether or not they can compete. They would have done better following lead of TSC Amos & NYSA, playing 8v8 for league, then do some 11v11 scrimmages & tournaments.

TSC Kitterman only plays 13. No guests in any of the games I've seen (I watched Plano & yesterday the Blitz v TSC K game).
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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:36 pm

I was interested in the score between Clinton and Southlakes...19-0 beatdown. Very unnecessary and low-class on the face of it. Hasn't the Southlakes coach ever heard of just passing the ball around? Yes, Clinton obviously should be in 8v8, but it is up to the other team's coach (in this case Southlake's) to keep in mind that these are 10 and 11 (and I hear some 9) year old girls. Please someone tell me that they at least tried not to run it up on 'em or that there was some extenuating circumstance. If not, then very sad and pathetic for Southlake's coach.
Anyone know anything?

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Worst Case Soccer Parent on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:50 pm

I watched for about 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

1. Primary coach wasn't there
2. Substitute coach pushed all defenders/sub players forward as offensive players 2nd half

I really think the guy did what he could outside of playing back 4 keep away for 30 minutes.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:51 pm

OK...feel better! Thanks!

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:21 pm

bird04. I am a parent of an SLSC 04 girl.   As you state, on the face it looks bad.  Our coach (he was a substitute coach who has not coached the girls before) and kids did everything they could to not score.  It could have been 30/40 – 0 had the coach desired.  

The game was 8-0 about 15 - 20 minutes into the game.   It was a perfect storm of great plays and/or a team that did not want to be there.   At that point kids were told to possess the ball (which is the style we play anyway) and move the ball around.  NO PLAYER played their normal position after it was 8-0.  

In the end, Clinton gave up and did not want to be there and/or were completely outmatched.  Maybe it was all the aforementioned.  We have taken some beatdowns over the years and its never pleasant and did not want it for the other team.  We even tried to cheer when they would make a hustle play against our own child.    99% of the time I would agree that this was ridiculous.  However, being there, seeing the attempts to keep the score down, see the defenders just passing it back and forth and seeing a team that gave up its hard to blame our coach or kids.  

Unfortunately we will have to play them again and so will the other teams.  Arsenal is not much different.  Only reason the score was just 4-0 was the grass was over 3 inches tall on their new fields.  Our fields are 3/4 inch.  It was funny watching them try to pass and the ball stop 10 feet before its intended target.   Worst fields we have ever played on (but has lots of potential in the future once grass takes hold and/or they mow it).

I don't know what the answer is but I wish there was something OSA could do.   It’s never pleasant to beat someone like that but I'm fearful OFC and the Tulsa teams are gonna be in for the same type of problems in trying to figure out how to keep score closer.


Last edited by SLSC04 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:45 pm

Thanks so much for letting me know this....I almost felt ill when I saw the score posted, but it sounds like Southlakes did everything they could and it wasn't how it appeared and I say kudos to Southlakes. I agree that OSA should re-jigger the schedule and put 'em down with 8v8 so these young girls don't lose heart.
Thanks again! Faith in humanity re-affirmed!

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:34 pm

I agree bird04. We still have no clue who the best players/teams et al will be 2 - 3 years from now. However, by playing in wrong division and/or against wrong competition a child's love for the sport can forever be squashed. I hope Clinton is better than this and can put up a fight. I hope it was just a bad day for those girls. That said, it was difficult to watch.

Now to chime in on rankings, I have no freaking clue who the best teams in the state are. TSC should have the advantage this fall as they have played much more 11 v 11. I personally feel that there are ups and downs with 10 year old girl soccer players. You gotta hope the ups are longer than the downs. I think any of the top 5 teams can beat and/or be beaten on any given day. In other words, there is not a huge separation between them. There are so many factors that could decide each game (officiating, temperature, fields, early morning versus late in the day, travel et al) that I think in this group a team that finishes 4 or 5 in OPL could then turn around and win State Cup.

I've seen SLSC of course, OFC and Winters play and have no clue who would beat who. They all have very contrasting styles. I do know that OFC is brutally physical from what I saw in Plano so it could depends on how the games are officiated with them.

I would be curious of people who saw OFC Kitterman game and how the game was played. Also, still have no clue on the Blitz as I have not seen them play since U9.

As to the one parent, it would be interesting if SLSC and Norman were to combine. The 03s would be dominate and Norman has two very good 04s playing up. Plus I think Rother will eventually have Norman where they are competitive. I would like to see this so that we could compete more consistently on a national level.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by soccerschmuck on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:52 am

If you want to be competitive on national level take your kids to OFC as soon as you can. As I said earlier if all west side girls would get to OFC as soon as possible they can be very competitive, just like most end up at TSC for ECNL.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:21 am

OFC/TSC Kitterman game was interesting. I would say 75-80% Kitterman in possession of the ball, probably 15-4 Kitterman to OFC shots on goal ratio (but mostly poor shots from each team, a moderate number of good shots here and there), but really a game played between the 18's. Good defense both sides. Will be a good match-up going forward. Not sure either team played their best...need a lot more matches to smooth out the data curve!

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Sparky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:38 am

Why does TSC Kittermen only have 13 girls on their roster? Did they have players quit already? Or are there just not enough players in the Tulsa area that are good enough to make the team?

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:36 pm

A lot of TSC club politics, especially vis a vis Winters. The other coaches wouldn't let their girls rotate during tryouts to take a look at Kitterman as they were afraid they would jump ship, IMO. Understandable fear on their part, but for the girls sake (on the other teams) the club should have forced the issue. I would think it will be different after this OPL season. There is also a selectivity factor, as you allude to, as they don't want to just take anyone. I can tell you that having 13 does make it a little rough at times, but the conditioning should be good! Ha! And, no , that has been the full roster since May. Bottom line, they will be happy to look at anyone at anytime.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by fanaticdad03 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:42 pm

Unless there is injury or illness, I do not think having 13 players on a roster is a weakness. If you are confident in your 13 and they are conditioned, its better that your better players are on the field more often. I know a lot of teams that would be better with a 13 or 14 man roster versus carrying 15 or 16. I consider this a strength of Kitterman and gives them an edge versus teams that are carrying 1 - 3 players that might not truly belong but due to club rules carrying that many.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Rico S on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:32 pm

fanaticdad03 wrote:Unless there is injury or illness, I do not think having 13 players on a roster is a weakness.   If you are confident in your 13 and they are conditioned, its better that your better players are on the field more often.  I know a lot of teams that would be better with a 13 or 14 man roster versus carrying 15 or 16.   I consider this a strength of Kitterman and gives them an edge versus teams that are carrying 1 - 3 players that might not truly belong but due to club rules carrying that many.

I agree with this.  Another advantage is that it leaves room for guest players.  It can become a nice opportunity to periodically (or better yet, systematically) bring in other girls to evaluate them.    Now, based on my experience with club soccer, and the tumult that seems to surround this age group at TSC, I am not confident that it will be utilized in this manner....but it should.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:33 pm

Agree with all of the above to a large extent. Injury possibility worrisome, though. We'll see if the guest playing within TSC works out....I know promises were made, but the proofs in the pudding!

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by letthekidsplay on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:50 pm

bird04 wrote:A lot of TSC club politics, especially vis a vis Winters. The other coaches wouldn't let their girls rotate during tryouts to take a look at Kitterman as they were afraid they would jump ship, IMO. Understandable fear on their part, but for the girls sake (on the other teams) the club should have forced the issue. I would think it will be different after this OPL season. There is also a selectivity factor, as you allude to, as they don't want to just take anyone. I can tell you that having 13 does make it a little rough at times, but the conditioning should be good! Ha! And, no , that has been the full roster since May. Bottom line, they will be happy to look at anyone at anytime.

Bird, I am glad to see that you put 'IMO', because that's what it is, your opinion and you are entitled to that. But, what if nobody wanted to go to Kitterman? It seems the blame is always on 'the club won't force it, or Winters won't allow it'. What if the reason girls didn't rotate during tryouts and look at your team is because nobody wanted to go there? One thing is for sure, some (not all) parents play both sides and will stop at nothing to go behind their own team or coach to do what is right by their daughter. With that being said, I really find it hard to believe anyone was stopped from looking at your team.

I also agree that there is nothing wrong with a 13 player roster. It has benefits. I say PLAY ON.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Sparky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:46 pm

I also agree with everything that was said. Putting injury and illness aside if you have 13 solid players why weaken your team with 2-3 other players that are not ready to play at the same level.


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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by bird04 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:57 pm

Well, true nonetheless. The fact is that the tryouts were supposed to be around 4 adjacent fields, with kids rotating amongst the different coaches periodically. Amos, Winters, and Pemberton (I think that's his name) wouldn't abide by this directive and refused to let these kids rotate (remember, it is nearly as much about the kids getting a look at the coach as it is the coach looking at the kids). The higher ups were asked to intervene to make the coaches adhere to the planned rotation. Nothing happened. Nada. So, to my mind, this pretty much fits what I described and it happened. So that part pretty much not "IMO". The IMO part is the possible motivation for the coaches to go against the agreed plan. I can't know their minds. I can only surmise their intent/fears/whatever. Now, all that is water under the bridge and I do agree with much of what you say.
We'll see what happens when Kitterman asks for guest players from Winters this year. I have heard from many that they are afraid they'll be blackballed/shunned/benched if they guest play for Kitterman. Is that true? I don't know. I know I've heard it. I do know that almost any girl on Kitterman would be happy to guest play for Winters, and has absolute permission/encouragement from both coach and manager, but as far as I can tell, they've never asked. Again, all in the past hopefully. It would be much better for all the girls if there was free guest play back and forth.
And, yes, it is possible that not one girl from three other teams wanted to come to Kitterman. Very unlikely, but possible.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by 05GKdad_Tulsa on Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:13 pm

I believe OSA rules prohibit Winters sharing players with Kitterman in league play, or in tournaments (like Beat the Heat that stipulate they will follow OSA rules). Pretty sure the rule is no d1 to d1 sharing. Same rule applies for the Blitz & Blitz Navy teams (however Blitz Red can share either way with both).

No restrictions (save coach/ club politics) for girls for either Amos team (1 OPL 8v8, the other OCL), Harding (OPL 8v8), or Pemberton (OCL) from guesting with any team (TSC or nonTSC).

Now big question is who will be first team to grab a guest outside their coach (Amos has already used b/t his OPL & OCL teams I believe).
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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by letthekidsplay on Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:21 pm

bird04 wrote:Well, true nonetheless. The fact is that the tryouts were supposed to be around 4 adjacent fields, with kids rotating amongst the different coaches periodically. Amos, Winters, and Pemberton (I think that's his name) wouldn't abide by this directive and refused to let these kids rotate (remember, it is nearly as much about the kids getting a look at the coach as it is the coach looking at the kids). The higher ups were asked to intervene to make the coaches adhere to the planned rotation. Nothing happened. Nada. So, to my mind, this pretty much fits what I described and it happened. So that part pretty much not "IMO". The IMO part is the possible motivation for the coaches to go against the agreed plan. I can't know their minds. I can only surmise their intent/fears/whatever. Now, all that is water under the bridge and I do agree with much of what you say.
We'll see what happens when Kitterman asks for guest players from Winters this year. I have heard from many that they are afraid they'll be blackballed/shunned/benched if they guest play for Kitterman. Is that true? I don't know. I know I've heard it. I do know that almost any girl on Kitterman would be happy to guest play for Winters, and has absolute permission/encouragement from both coach and manager, but as far as I can tell, they've never asked. Again, all in the past hopefully. It would be much better for all the girls if there was free guest play back and forth.
And, yes, it is possible that not one girl from three other teams wanted to come to Kitterman. Very unlikely, but possible.

Your entire statement about tryouts is completely inaccurate, but if that is what you want to believe, go for it.  All 04 teams were on adjacent fields.  Why didn't Kitterman take his girls over to the other fields and rotate them in?    I saw Winters take his girls and rotate with the other group on his field and then scrimmage them.  There is no conspiracy theory going on.   Do you realize how much stuff is said from your own parents, about your team?   Is anyone on here doing a 'i heard, and he said she said'.  No.  We could.  We could go on and on and on about what 'we heard' from Kitterman parents.  But why?  What good does that do?

The question was why you had 13.  The statements coming back seem to be that you like your 13, that should have been your answer.  Yet, You had to attack the club and Winters, and now you are attacking the other 04 coaches.   As I said earlier, parents will say anything and play both sides, nobody is afraid of retribution if they guest with another team.  I agree with you that there should be free guest play back and forth.  However, it will be hard for Kitterman/Winters to share with the new OSA rules. They absolutely can't guest play in league. They can use Amos, Harding, Pemberton. There should be group 04 practices, they should be scrimmaging each other.  There are a whole bunch of things that 'should' be happening.  This needs to be water under the bridge, and should remain that way.  There will be movement, they will get the right girls together in time.  However, continual attacks on other teams, coaches, clubs, parents along with the promotion of your own team on these forums is not going to help you.  Everyone can see right through it.  

IMO, if you take 7 from Kitterman and 7 from Winters you will probably have a really good team of 14.  One last thing (and this is not meant to be an attack) yes, it is true.  Not one girl from the other 04 teams wanted to come to Kitterman.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Rico S on Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:49 pm

letthekidsplay wrote:[quote="bird04".  Not one girl from the other 04 teams wanted to come to Kitterman.

So the girl that went to Kitterman from Amos' team was forced to do so against her will? Rolling Eyes

This 04 group is a mess. I love it. It has that north TX feel----arrogant coaches, insane parents, and a talented group of girls.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by letthekidsplay on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:03 pm

Rico S wrote:
letthekidsplay wrote:[quote="bird04".  Not one girl from the other 04 teams wanted to come to Kitterman.

So the girl that went to Kitterman from Amos' team was forced to do so against her will? Rolling Eyes

This 04 group is a mess.  I love it.  It has that north TX feel----arrogant coaches, insane parents, and a talented group of girls.

Get a life. A girl from Amos went to Winters too. It was in reference to Bird04 stating that your roster was at 13 because OTHERS (not the one that went there and the one that went to Winters) wanted to go but weren't allowed to, or were scared to. Truth was nobody else wanted to.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by oksoccer on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:03 pm

yes this is good stuff. letthekidsplay go ahead and let us know what you have heard.

I don't think the Amos girl was forced, but the statement was no one else wanted to go.


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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by fanaticdad03 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:17 pm

10 year old soccer. Its enjoyable to watch the fascination and politics and in fighting at clubs. Let me give some reality. Just because a girl is good at 10 years old doesn't mean she will be good at 18. While your DD needs to be on a team that challenges her, being on Winters, Amos or Kitterman is completely irrelevant to their long-term development so long as the coaches are teaching the fundamentals of the game. Same applies on Westside of the state. As long as these kids are developing its irrelevant at this age what team they are on unless who you are or politics controls the team they are placed on at 14 versus ability.

TSC has done a good job marketing to its parents that its the end all be all in Oklahoma soccer. Its not. There are just as many talented fundamentally sound girls on the westside of the state as their is on the eastside. OFC's defensive line will stack up against anyones. OFC has the same depth in numbers as TSC but without the politics. SLSC's outside and center midfielders are as good as any in the state. Better hope these clubs never combine or figure out how to get the best girls together later in their playing days.

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by oksoccer on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:24 pm

cheers
Well said!

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Re: Top 5 04 girls teams

Post by Sparky on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:05 pm

Lets have an East vs West game. That would be great to see

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