Most improved 04 team?

And, I'm not an OFC person. They do it as well. As long as the rule has flexibility, some hyper competitive coaches and/or clubs will abuse it.

I think everyone is reading way to much into this. Amos has not done this in the past. He is very organized and I bet when he offered to count his state game he knew that his only option was to get players from Griffin as the normal players he has pulled up in the past where probably not available.

The Soccer 1% wrote:

ENERGYFC04 wrote:

The Soccer 1% wrote:

Tar Heel wrote:

ENERGYFC04 wrote:

The Soccer 1% wrote:Hey, but at least they got the win!  Doesn't letting a guest player come in and play such a role that she's taking the PK's undermine the actual team that you're coaching?  

Nope makes them pick up their level of play.  Makes them see how you should really play.  

Seriously, not to regurgitate anything but be very careful to read much if anything in the last couple of weeks of results.   I will say that i give TSC credit as where most other clubs are relaxed the ECNL tryout monster of TSC has kept their kids focused this last few weeks IMO

Couldn't agree more.  Both guest players were former "Winter" players (as is 3 that are currently on the Amos team).  The level of play looked great.  

And the PK, probably habit or instinct, she is one of the main ones that take the PKs on the Griffin team.  She was close to the ball when the hand ball occurred.  As a dad, I love that she wants that pressure / responsibility.

Guest players get a lot out of these games also... touches, stamina, pressure situations, teamwork, beating OFC, leadership, adversity, friendships, etc.    

I think he had his tongue planted firmly in cheek on the positives of the system to mock the abuse of the system by the large clubs.

"touches, stamina, pressure situations, leadership, etc."  These are all things that the CPP program is supposed to instill on some of the players in your systems.  Just not the ones that you're "developing".  TSC is using the system to "develop" the star players.  They're already developed.  The role players and subs from Parker/Griffin/etc. should be the ones that they're using to CPP.  That's not happening.

BINGO we have a winner

Ironically, they're actually cheating the players that need to develop the leadership skills and performing under pressure.  There could be some Amos kid who is going to explode developmentally in the future who could have benefited from being the straw that stirred the drink on this team.  This player could develop into an excellent role player on a top team in the future.  Except that her confidence kept getting humbled when they brought in star players to take her role and make her only a situational leader.  All at the expense of wins in OPL Silver in a season where promotion/relegation means jack squat.

Or...perhaps some of the top end of Amos' team greatly benefit from being able to play with better players that move off the ball, space well, play with their head up...etc.  

I'm sure that CPPing 2 Griffin players one game didn't stunt any girl's development on Amos' team--that's laughable.  What's equally laughable is to paint Amos as a coach who is all about the win.

Agree if he was he would've not played in OPL gold so his team could've won more games or he would've CPPd Griffin players all season.

Rico S wrote:Or...perhaps some of the top end of Amos' team greatly benefit from being able to play with better players that move off the ball, space well, play with their head up...etc.  

I'm sure that CPPing 2 Griffin players one game didn't stunt any girl's development on Amos' team--that's laughable.  What's equally laughable is to paint Amos as a coach who is all about the win.

Some TSC coaches do it a lot. Some don't do it at all. What's laughable is that you don't think it's being abused by some. I've seen top girls play routinely down on the 5th team in the 03 group. That is actually laughable. The guest player scores both goals and you people don't get a kick out of that...

I haven't seen 04 Amos play much this year, but from what I saw Saturday, they were playing at the same intensity, speed and desire to win as the two guest players.

I doubt anyone felt "cheated." They looked pretty happy after the game was over.

And again... we were already in town, they needed a player, doesn't matter, season's over. Next time take the State Cup result.

Thank you season over. Almost everyone guests players. Can argue all day why, point is, most do it and it'll happen again next year, the year after that and the year after that. It is what it is.

No use in arguing with people Tarheel. They hate TSC and its a lose - lose situation. Your daughter is an amazing player. Who cares what they think.

I'm sure Tarheel's daughter is an amazing player. I don't hate TSC. If I had a top level player, I'd have not one bit of hesitation sending her into the belly of the beast to play for TSC. I've recommended to people to do that and have not tried to dissuade others who are doing it with their talented kids. I just don't like when my mid level player plays a mid level TSC/OFC team that just happens to have top level players sprinkled in with their players in LEAGUE games. You know, when they score all of the goals or wear #10 (because all developmental players wear that jersey number). It's just patently unfair. It takes nothing away from those skilled players at all. It's a system that's flexible that is being abused. It's my new raison d' etre.

The Soccer 1% wrote:  What's laughable is that you don't think it's being abused by some.

Where did I say that?

I don't know what happened here at all, but I've said it before. My experience is that usually the cpp abuse at TSC is more due to parents from the top teams or parents with connections getting their way and getting their kids more playing time by hitting up all the coaches their kid could possibly play for for additional playing time. It's one of those cases where the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If your Amos or Sharp or Williams or Parker or whoever and you are short on players, it's just easier to text back the guy that's been bugging you already to play than it is to go scout out some girl off the F team who's probably glad the season is over and can't wait to sit on the couch and watch tv. Plus it's kind of a win-win. The coach brings in a good player that helps them win, and the parent's ego gets a little bump since their kid is "getting asked to play". Even though most of the times, it was parent initiated contact that led to the guesting opportunity.

Rico S wrote:

The Soccer 1% wrote:  What's laughable is that you don't think it's being abused by some.

Where did I say that?

You seem to be confident that TSC is not abusing the system by writing it off as "laughable".

Blameitontheref wrote:I don't know what happened here at all, but I've said it before. My experience is that usually the cpp abuse at TSC is more due to parents from the top teams or parents with connections getting their way and getting their kids more playing time by hitting up all the coaches their kid could possibly play for for additional playing time. It's one of those cases where the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If your Amos or Sharp or Williams or Parker or whoever and you are short on players, it's just easier to text back the guy that's been bugging you already to play than it is to go scout out some girl off the F team who's probably glad the season is over and can't wait to sit on the couch and watch tv. Plus it's kind of a win-win. The coach brings in a good player that helps them win, and the parent's ego gets a little bump since their kid is "getting asked to play". Even though most of the times, it was parent initiated contact that led to the guesting opportunity.

I think you could be right. Some coaches don't do it at all. They go all Norman Dale and "that's my team". Some use it appropriately and some abuse it for competitive advantage. Right or wrong, they all get painted with the latter brush. That's why the rule needs to be clarified to only allow it to be used in OSA governed games in appropriately developmental ways. If you want to loosen it up for SRPL and national stuff, then follow those more flexible guidelines. When we're all competing locally with relegation and promotion on the line disallow it for competitive reasons. It just make sense.

Blameitontheref wrote:I don't know what happened here at all, but I've said it before. My experience is that usually the cpp abuse at TSC is more due to parents from the top teams or parents with connections getting their way and getting their kids more playing time by hitting up all the coaches their kid could possibly play for for additional playing time. It's one of those cases where the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If your Amos or Sharp or Williams or Parker or whoever and you are short on players, it's just easier to text back the guy that's been bugging you already to play than it is to go scout out some girl off the F team who's probably glad the season is over and can't wait to sit on the couch and watch tv. Plus it's kind of a win-win. The coach brings in a good player that helps them win, and the parent's ego gets a little bump since their kid is "getting asked to play". Even though most of the times, it was parent initiated contact that led to the guesting opportunity.

Wow, you sound bitter and with an agenda. The only time we have asked to play something was if TSC 03 Beattie won State this year and some of his players couldn't make the trip to regionals (which obviously didn't happen). Yes, we know all the coaches and visa-versa (since we have an 03, 04 and 05, but you probably already know that), however, we don't "hit up" the coaches. But AGAIN, many times it's because we are already there with another DD. Just like Saturday.

And "thank you" TSC010405.

Tar Heel: would you concur with this?

Any player from griffin playing on Beattie, Banham, or Williams would be completely appropriate. Beattie girls playing with sharp or would be inappropriate.

I said I had no idea what happened in this situation. So I never implied I was talking about you. If you are getting defensive maybe I struck a nerve. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to. I just think overzealous daddy's that want everyone to think their kids are the greatest at least play a part in who guests where. And in my opinion, that happens more often than the case of the coach just going out of his way to go get a ringer. Honestly I am trying to give the coaches a little credit and imply they'd rather take the lower team kid for development, only no lower team kids are showing interest. Maybe that credit is not due. Maybe they are just picking up who they feel is the best player. What do you think?

Here's an off topic question, sort of...Can ECNL girls guest play? I've heard both ways on this and don't know...

The Soccer 1% wrote:Tar Heel:  would you concur with this?

Any player from griffin playing on Beattie,  Banham, or Williams would be completely appropriate.  Beattie girls playing with sharp or would be inappropriate.

I'll answer it this way, we had a couple 03 Beattie players guest play with us on the 03 Williams team this year. During those games, my DD played harder, more focused and aggressive than normal. IMHO, due to the skill and presence of the guest players.

I guess I have no problem with it at all, just a difference of opinion.

There are a lot of conspiracy theories that get floated around on this page. Tar Heel has given you the answer yet you continue to harp on the fact that his daughter played.
So is the sole reason for everyone not liking girls on higher teams playing down because it takes away an opportunity from a girl on a lower team? Wouldn't it also be true that it is good for the team they are guest playing with,so those girls can play with someone at a higher level? Usually the girls on the lower level teams are there for a reason like, -- they are lower level players and most likely always will be. A few will sprout and move up but not many. If they have potential I have seen them get chances. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's true.

bird04 wrote:Here's an off topic question, sort of...Can ECNL girls guest play? I've heard both ways on this and don't know...

It all comes back to ECNL.

oksoccer wrote:

bird04 wrote:Here's an off topic question, sort of...Can ECNL girls guest play? I've heard both ways on this and don't know...

It all comes back to ECNL.

^ He needs a "safe place" like those college kids nowadays.

One without the mention of 04 Kitterman, guest players or ECNL.

Someone start a new topic. This one is old, boring and repetitive. Did I spell that right? Let's leave last year behind us.

bird04 wrote:Here's an off topic question, sort of...Can ECNL girls guest play? I've heard both ways on this and don't know...

I could be wrong, but I've heard only with other ECNL type teams (different player cards, organizations).

Seems like they do it a lot in NTX, though, and that always had me scratching my head, because I thought it was just as you say...only within the ECNL organization. I guess we'll know soon enough.