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Changes coming to TSC?

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by El Tarjeta Rojo on Tue May 02, 2017 4:09 pm

All the above.
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by BASoccer on Tue May 02, 2017 5:14 pm

Also, a lot of talent (in the older age groups) left Blitz a few years ago. I can think of some WSA players too. Many went to TSC, including some coaches.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Tue May 02, 2017 8:27 pm

And this happens because TSC offers more opportunity than any other club in the state. So more of the talent typically gravitates toward that particular club. Soccer runs pretty deep in the Tulsa area, I don't know why...
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by BASoccer on Wed May 03, 2017 1:32 pm

El Tarjeta Rojo wrote:
It will rank for example:
ECNL 02
TCL 02
NPL 02 (FORGOT THIS ONE LOL)
OPC 02

TSC010405 wrote:SO basically after the news release this is how it pans out for the new OPC League:

ECNL
Texas Champions
NPL Red River
OPC 1st Division
OPC 2nd Division

So pretty much like before.

TSC010405 wrote:BASOCCER, the teams will not be as diluted as some would like you to believe.  After an age group goes ECNL the other clubs in the state never see those teams again.  You are already playing against the so called diluted players in SRPL, OPL and OCL, and as we all know TSCH competes at those levels with those players.  

Don't get me wrong. I do think TSC will do well in the RR NPL, I'm just saying with the composite teams going age pure, they will need more players from former SRPL teams to complete their rosters. This is assuming the player pool stays about the same, which is difficult to predict year-to-year. TSC will be fine, however. I totally agree with what you said about ECNL. They become pretty insulated from the rest of the players in the state, even within their own club.

Is it me or are many of the ECNL rosters pretty small? I would think they'd want about 18 per squad.

Yellowcard wrote:
BASoccer wrote:Why no mention of the ECNL Composite teams? I think Yellowcard said something about those teams going age pure and continuing to compete in the Texas Champions League. Is TSC going to fully compete in two NPL leagues?

Those former composite teams would pull some of the best SRPL players, so TSC's Red River teams would be even more talent diluted. If TSC has ECNL while also competing in the Texas Champions League, won't it be TSC's third teams playing against most clubs' first teams?

That is correct...  That's how it was last year as well...  TSC had 2 teams in SRPL in some age groups and composite as well.  Also, don't let "3rd" team fool you...  They still compete with the other teams in Oklahoma.  Also, ECNL and Champions League aren't for everyone.  Some players won't do it even though they very well could.

This is how I see the levels shaking out:
ECNL
Texas Champions League(Follows ECNL schedule about 50%)
NPL (previously SRPL for some)
OPC (previously OPL for some)


So we have 14 clubs involved with this league. Will there only be one NPL team allowed per age group now, or will we still see multiple teams?

NPL should be a big improvement over SRPL, but I do wonder how the in-state OPC league will work out in some age groups. With OPC, you will only play the 4 other club members, and some clubs might only field one team in any particular age group. So will most OPC divisions (especially u15 & up) be comprised of schedules where you play each opponent like 3 times per season?

I absolutely agree with the bolded statement, even SRPL is a bit like that.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Wed May 03, 2017 2:41 pm

ECNL for TSC usually carries around 16.  I don't think many people want to travel and pay those costs to sit on the bench.  Only 11 can play at one time and once you sub out you can't come back in that half.  As for The composite teams going pure age you will see some pulling from the SRPL teams but we aren't talking whole teams or anything.
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by BASoccer on Wed May 03, 2017 3:51 pm

Well, that's certainly understandable from a cost perspective. 

Do you have any idea if clubs like TSC will be allowed more than one team per age group in the RR NPL?

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by 04eastside on Wed May 03, 2017 6:45 pm

There's been a lot of statements and posts about how the new Red River League will dilute or severely water down SRPL. I try to live in a reality based on facts. I try. This forum makes it really hard. So I looked at SRPL to see would it really be watered down based on the OK teams leaving. Curious where the teams were placed that are leaving. Again, these are the OK teams leaving.

BOYS:
u13: 7th pl team leaving of 12 teams (2nd place tsc ecnl nxt yr
U14: 12 pl team of 12 teams leaving (4th pl tsc ECNL nxt yr)
u15: 3rd of 12 (this team likely tsc ecnl nxt yr)
u16: 6th&7th of 7 teams (1st plc ECNL nxt yr)

GIRLS:
u13: 4th&8th of 12 leaving
u14: 6th&8th of 12 leaving
u15: 3rd&6th of 11 leaving
U16: 1st,6th &7th of 7 leaving

As you can see, there are some exceptions, but no OK teams leaving are just killing it in SRPL. So argument your having for better competition is tough to believe when NONE, with the exception of 1, is even first in SRPL now.

However, you might get to be number 1 in red River. Has anyone examined these clubs OK teams are joining? Not including Liverpool or maybe the KS cub. Some of these cubs have only 6 -12 competitive teams TOTAL. Is one, Dallas City FC, an actual club yet?

Granted its Red Rivers first year, so premature for me to speak on its success.

Question is, is Red River a watered down version of SRPL? Time will tell. However, if OK teams dominate it, unlike they they did in SRPL, we know the answer to that question.










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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by TSC010405 on Wed May 03, 2017 6:53 pm

It's not just what they are losing from Oklahoma. Look a little deeper and look at all the Texas teams that left SRPL. It will definitely be less competitive. You can show numbers any way you want to make yourself feel better. You showed only TSC teams. The soccer world is bigger than TSCH. All the blame going to TSCH for these changes. How about all the other clubs that left.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by 04eastside on Wed May 03, 2017 7:17 pm

No, that was not TSC teams. That was ALL the OK teams joining Red River. I am also, not trying to make myself feel better, because like you, I'm very happy with the decision my daughter and I have made.

Also, who told you all the Texas teams were leaving SRPL? We both are aiming right now. Your assuming they're leaving, I'm assuming their not. Fact is none of the Texas club in Red River are in SRPL now anyway, with the exception of Liverpool the club. Even you know they've done both NPL and SRPL for few years now. You sure that's going to change.

Nothing in my post blamed TSC either and I won't. I'm purely stating a few facts and mostly my opinion, just like a TON of other parents on here. Re-read my post, I clearly state " these are the rankings of the OK teams leaving, not TSC.

In not showing numbers anyway I want. Example, the u13 Boys have 2 teams from the 5 clubs leaving SRPL. one is in 2nd place and the other is 7th. The only reason I stated 2nd place was TSC was to make the point they were leaving anyway because of boys ecnl.

Like I said, I try not to put some facts out there, with a lot of my opinion.

Lastly, I don't need to say or put anything on this forum to "make myself feel better." Lol

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by TSC010405 on Wed May 03, 2017 7:20 pm

Sure ya don't!

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Wed May 03, 2017 7:22 pm

BASoccer wrote:Well, that's certainly understandable from a cost perspective. 

Do you have any idea if clubs like TSC will be allowed more than one team per age group in the RR NPL?

I wouldn't see why not...
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by ENERGYFC04 on Wed May 03, 2017 8:44 pm

If blame must be cast I see the advent of the DA girls and ECNL boys as the precipitating factors leading up to this.   What do I mean?  The DA is almost exclusively in large metropolitan areas that can finance the cost of DA (costs the club several hundreds of thousands per year) and have talent pool.   DFW alone is 8-9x the size of Oklahoma.   So basically, there are two top divisions siphoning out approximately 40 kids or so.  Add in ECNL composite and you are looking at upwards to 55 kids before you could possibly reach an SRPL level team.   The result is other markets are looking at ways to get better competitive platforms.  

I can best use the 04 girls as example of issues with SRPL.  Next year the top team Texans South will be in DA.  SLSC has chance to basically finish 2 - 4.   The next team(s)are Houston express and Dallas Rush are going ECNL.   FC Dallas Premier which is next will likely be ECNL.   Basically, you would be left with the 4 Oklahoma clubs and One world soccer from Houston which i don't believe won a game.  

Take out the DA and you still have top quality talent in SRPL.  With DA not so much.     In other words, the advent of ECNL boys and DA girls  has literally forced SRPL into 4 - 6 tier type league.   Is the costs traveling to Houston etc worth the competition?  Its not as if college coaches will be there.  

I guess the greed at the top is filtering down and the next few years will be interesting.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Wed May 03, 2017 9:12 pm

ENERGYFC04 wrote:If blame must be cast I see the advent of the DA girls and ECNL boys as the precipitating factors leading up to this.   What do I mean?  The DA is almost exclusively in large metropolitan areas that can finance the cost of DA (costs the club several hundreds of thousands per year) and have talent pool.   DFW alone is 8-9x the size of Oklahoma.   So basically, there are two top divisions siphoning out approximately 40 kids or so.  Add in ECNL composite and you are looking at upwards to 55 kids before you could possibly reach an SRPL level team.   The result is other markets are looking at ways to get better competitive platforms.  

I can best use the 04 girls as example of issues with SRPL.  Next year the top team Texans South will be in DA.  SLSC has chance to basically finish 2 - 4.   The next team(s)are Houston express and Dallas Rush are going ECNL.   FC Dallas Premier which is next will likely be ECNL.   Basically, you would be left with the 4 Oklahoma clubs and One world soccer from Houston which i don't believe won a game.  

Take out the DA and you still have top quality talent in SRPL.  With DA not so much.     In other words, the advent of ECNL boys and DA girls  has literally forced SRPL into 4 - 6 tier type league.   Is the costs traveling to Houston etc worth the competition?  Its not as if college coaches will be there.  

I guess the greed at the top is filtering down and the next few years will be interesting.

You make some very valid points!!! I approve this message... HAHA
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by BASoccer on Wed May 03, 2017 9:58 pm

How do you guys feel about the travel differences between SRPL & RR NPL? About the same? Sounds like some traveling weekends without the south Texas trips.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by NeverPlayedSoccer on Thu May 04, 2017 1:32 am

I can speak to 05 girls (U12) a little bit and it brings up a ton of questions. This past fall in OPL, TSC's top team won by a half point then pulled out of the spring to play 11's instead of 9's. TSC's second team didn't finish top 5, so this spring it was two OFC teams, blitz, celtic and cosmos. Celtic and cosmos will finish 3rd and 4th this spring. So what will that 05 girls look like in the new OPC format? The TSC num 1 team is gone playing ECNL right? Their second team that couldn't finish in top 5 in the fall will go where, to the Texas Champs League? Does that mean TSC's 3rd team will play in the NPL and their 4th team will play in the new OPC? Celtic will be the top team in the OPC or will they play in the NPL? This new format looks like a nightmare for 05 girls clubs that left OSA. I guess there's always tournaments right? Doesn't seem ground breaking for the 05 girls...

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Thu May 04, 2017 2:55 am

BASoccer wrote:How do you guys feel about the travel differences between SRPL & RR NPL? About the same? Sounds like some traveling weekends without the south Texas trips.

Should be similar. When we did SRPL it was much the same travel as ECNL at the time. But on NTX wouldn't be bad at all!
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Thu May 04, 2017 2:59 am

NeverPlayedSoccer wrote:I can speak to 05 girls (U12) a little bit and it brings up a ton of questions.  This past fall in OPL, TSC's top team won by a half point then pulled out of the spring to play 11's instead of 9's.  TSC's second team didn't finish top 5, so this spring it was two OFC teams, blitz, celtic and cosmos.  Celtic and cosmos will finish 3rd and 4th this spring.  So what will that 05 girls look like in the new OPC format?  The TSC num 1 team is gone playing ECNL right?  Their second team that couldn't finish in top 5 in the fall will go where, to the Texas Champs League?  Does that mean TSC's 3rd team will play in the NPL and their 4th team will play in the new OPC? Celtic will be the top team in the OPC or will they play in the NPL?  This new format looks like a nightmare for 05 girls clubs that left OSA.  I guess there's always tournaments right?  Doesn't seem ground breaking for the 05 girls...

Yes the 05s will go to ECNL but it's light. I don't thing the 05s will start TCL or NPL for another year. So the second team should be in OPC. They will need to scout and recruit for the 05 age group it sounds like!
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by FootballDad05 on Thu May 04, 2017 3:10 am

NeverPlayed, it was actually 2 points with a goal differential of 65 for Beattie to 48 for OFC.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by NeverPlayedSoccer on Thu May 04, 2017 3:29 am

FootballDad, Yes, you are correct. Not sure what I was thinking. TSC had one loss. We had one loss and one tie. So yes, it was a 2 point difference.

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by NeverPlayedSoccer on Thu May 04, 2017 3:32 am

Yellow, but aren't their 04's playing srpl now? Why wouldn't the 05's play the equivalent next year?

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Thu May 04, 2017 3:44 am

NeverPlayedSoccer wrote:Yellow, but aren't their 04's playing srpl now?  Why wouldn't the 05's play the equivalent next year?

Yes. So the thing to remember about Srpl for everyone that hasn't done it is that the u13 and u14 play in the spring Srpl league after qualifying in the fall. Once you go u15 and higher it's a fall league only so those ages typically have played OPL in the spring or showcase tournaments only. So that leaves them with options. As for npl I'm not 100% sure if they will do the same or play a year round league and what age it will start...
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by NeverPlayedSoccer on Thu May 04, 2017 3:53 am

Yellow, Got ya. What happened with TSC and Super Y league? I thought they were apart of the new mid south league that was announced not too long ago...

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Thu May 04, 2017 4:12 am

Haven't heard much about it... Also something to remember is that it's possible not every age group will participate in all of the leagues available.
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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by BASoccer on Thu May 04, 2017 2:43 pm

I think we can say with some ease that replacing SRPL with NPL should be an improvment. I think we can also say that breaking away from the bureaucracy of OSA will have some benefits as well.

The one change I have the most questions about is the OPC league itself. While the younger age groups have enough teams to offset the small number of clubs participating, the '02 and older age groups look a little concerning.

If we go off the 2016-17 season:

(not including ECNL or Composite teams)

02's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 2 OCL (1 Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL

01's

TSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 1 OCL (Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OPL
OC: 1 SRPL

00's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 1 OPL, 1 OCL
WSA: 1 OPL
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL
OC: 0

99's/98's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 2 OPL
WSA: 1 SRPL, 2 OPL, 1 OCL ('98)
NEOFC: 2 OCL (2 '98)
SLSC: 1 OPL ('98), 1 OCL
OC: 2 SRPL (1 '98), 1 OPL

Looking at 2017-18, we can try to estimate OPC participation, although there are a lot of variables and it's difficult to account for some of them. It's only a rough sketch. '98 teams are gone, some age groups could be reconstructed at a club's discretion, a few might move up to or down from NPL, etc.

So, projecting next year's inaugural OPC season:

02's

TSC: 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 2 OCL (1 Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 1 OCL

7 OPC teams

01's

TSC: 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 1 OCL (Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 0

5 OPC teams

00's

TSC: 1 OPL, 1 OCL
WSA: 1 OPL
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OCL
OC: 0

5 OPC teams

99's

TSC: 2 OPL
WSA: 2 OPL
NEOFC: 0
SLSC: 1 OCL
OC: 1 OPL

6 OPC teams (some teams lose '98 players, some '99 teams become '99/'00, so the 11 total teams for U18/U19 will certainly shrink)

The talent gap between some of the OPL & OCL teams is too large to place them in the same division, assuming team composition is approximately the same. Not a lot of teams to create separate divisions.

Any thoughts about this, or am I completely missing something as it pertains to the new OPC league?

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Re: Changes coming to TSC?

Post by Yellowcard on Thu May 04, 2017 7:44 pm

BASoccer wrote:I think we can say with some ease that replacing SRPL with NPL should be an improvment. I think we can also say that breaking away from the bureaucracy of OSA will have some benefits as well.

The one change I have the most questions about is the OPC league itself. While the younger age groups have enough teams to offset the small number of clubs participating, the '02 and older age groups look a little concerning.

If we go off the 2016-17 season:

(not including ECNL or Composite teams)

02's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 2 OCL (1 Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL

01's

TSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 1 OCL (Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OPL
OC: 1 SRPL

00's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 1 OPL, 1 OCL
WSA: 1 OPL
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 SRPL, 1 OCL
OC: 0

99's/98's

TSC: 2 SRPL, 2 OPL
WSA: 1 SRPL, 2 OPL, 1 OCL ('98)
NEOFC: 2 OCL (2 '98)
SLSC: 1 OPL ('98), 1 OCL
OC: 2 SRPL (1 '98), 1 OPL

Looking at 2017-18, we can try to estimate OPC participation, although there are a lot of variables and it's difficult to account for some of them. It's only a rough sketch. '98 teams are gone, some age groups could be reconstructed at a club's discretion, a few might move up to or down from NPL, etc.

So, projecting next year's inaugural OPC season:

02's

TSC: 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 2 OCL (1 Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 1 OCL

7 OPC teams

01's

TSC: 1 OPL
WSA: 1 OPL, 1 OCL (Arsenal)
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OPL
OC: 0

5 OPC teams

00's

TSC: 1 OPL, 1 OCL
WSA: 1 OPL
NEOFC: 1 OCL
SLSC: 1 OCL
OC: 0

5 OPC teams

99's

TSC: 2 OPL
WSA: 2 OPL
NEOFC: 0
SLSC: 1 OCL
OC: 1 OPL

6 OPC teams (some teams lose '98 players, some '99 teams become '99/'00, so the 11 total teams for U18/U19 will certainly shrink)

The talent gap between some of the OPL & OCL teams is too large to place them in the same division, assuming team composition is approximately the same. Not a lot of teams to create separate divisions.

Any thoughts about this, or am I completely missing something as it pertains to the new OPC league?

I think you covered it all... LOL cheers
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